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		<title>Comments for page &quot;Tragedy of the Commons and Tragedy of the Privately Owned Land&quot;</title>
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				<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2015 02:33:13 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>citizenfour</wikidot:authorName>								<content:encoded>
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						 <p>being from Russia, I'm not aware of any examples of &quot;Tragedy of the Commons&quot;, communities take care of idiotic actions quickly when voices are equal&#8230;</p> <p>There were many examples of overutilization mistakes of planned economy, during Stalin rule when dissidents were shot immediately, literally leading to famine and deaths&#8230; and I am afraid it might come back.</p> <p>IMO, inequality is what causes tyranny of monopolies, leading to inevitable mismanagement&#8230; but that's another story. Remember, inequality caused Communist Revolution in Russia and nazism in Germany :)</p> 
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				<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2015 02:19:35 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>citizenfour</wikidot:authorName>								<content:encoded>
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						 <p>many have been experimenting with idea of some progressive taxation for using common resources&#8230; in addition to VATs, &quot;tax on air&quot;, &quot;tax on emissions&quot;, &#8230; it'd add forces preventing destruction of resource by homines economicii<br /> :)<br /> Taxes collected can be used to replentish the resource, e.g. fish hatcheries for fishermen&#8230; and the circle is complete<br /> :)</p> 
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				<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2014 04:53:10 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>martin_sustrik</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>939</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>From what I read, the &quot;tragedy of the commons&quot; hardly ever happened with actual common grazing lands. Stable societies always impose some kind of system to prevent it. Your is just one of many examples.</p> <p>Where it does happen, it seems, are the societies that are to large to impose such tribal system of control (above Dunbar's number?) or societies that are changing to fast to evolve any efficient system.</p> 
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				<pubDate>Sun, 07 Dec 2014 18:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Alex Evt</wikidot:authorName>								<content:encoded>
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						 <p>In the traditional Russian agriculture commons, the &quot;Tragedy of the Commons&quot; was solved fast and efficient. The scarce resources, the frail and unsure agriculture required that such things simply would not happen. So, the commons either expelled such a guy or even set his house on fire and kill excess kettle: cruel but decisive.</p> <p>A guy that tries to use more than others do was called &quot;мироед&quot; (&quot;miroyed&quot;, the one who eats what should be distributed among all).</p> <p>The Russian commons' goal was very simple: all the members should keep alive until the next harvest, even if the weather or other conditions were unfavourable, which was happening too frequent. So all resources were gathered together and distributed evenly.</p> 
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				<guid>http://250bpm.com/blog:29/comments/show#post-1973684</guid>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 21 Feb 2014 12:10:27 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>martin_sustrik</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>939</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>The article discusses the &quot;tragedy of the commons&quot; which is itself based on the model of a human being as &quot;homo economicus&quot;. I am showing then even within the homo encomicus paradigm, the parable doesn't really apply to private vs. public, rather it's a general statement about overutilisation of resources.</p> <p>As for moving beyond homo economicus paradigm: Yes, when people are not lacking basic means to survive and when they are relatively confident about being able to survive in the future, quest for social status becomes more important driving force than profit-seeking. From that point on, accumulation of wealth is driven by desire to improve one's social status rather than other way round.</p> <p>While that may seem silly, there's a good reason for that: In societies beyond dunbar number there's no way to maintain social status using traditional means (gifts and such) The only fully scalable way of maintaining status (in other words, making it possible to prove your status to any other human beign, even if you haven't met them before) is money.</p> <p>So, if you are thinking about alternative ways for the economy to work, you'll have to solve the scalability problem in some other way.</p> 
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				<pubDate>Thu, 20 Feb 2014 21:07:08 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>John Nilsson</wikidot:authorName>								<content:encoded>
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						 <p>As a thought experiment consider the effect of this change to the scenario: The right of property cannot be held without compensation to the other commoners. Think Henry George style land value taxation.</p> 
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				<pubDate>Thu, 20 Feb 2014 20:55:22 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>John Nilsson</wikidot:authorName>								<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Is profit-seeking really the main driving force? Or rather does it have to be? I found this <a href="http://simulacrum.cc/2014/02/18/bitcoin-in-context/">text on the history of money</a> to have some interesting things to say on that topic.</p> <p>&quot;the Tiv women of central Nigeria who are constantly giving gifts, but never of the same value, to respond a gift with an equal gift would end the social debt and by implication, the relationship&quot;</p> <p>Seems that social status may also be a potent driving force. Which might not be too far fetched when for example considering things in the light of SCARF <a href="http://www.davidrock.net/files/NLJ_SCARFUS.pdf">SCARF</a> or similar models of driving forces.</p> <p>And really, the massive ammounts of economic value produced in for form of <a href="http://www.benkler.org/Benkler_Wealth_Of_Networks.pdf">Commons based peer-production</a> should make one a little skeptical of the profit-seeking world view.</p> 
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				<pubDate>Mon, 16 Dec 2013 08:28:58 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>martin_sustrik</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>939</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Yes. However, keep in mind that profit-seeking is the main driving force in the economy. Once you make everything public, people are not incentivised to work, improve, produce stuff etc. See what happened with the Soviet-style socialism.</p> <p>The real goal is to balance the profit-seeking and sustainability.</p> <p>The point of the article is not to propose some system to achieve that (I don't have one) but to make it clear that privatisation is not a panacea and &quot;tragedy of the commons&quot; which is often used as an argument for privatisation is in fact an argument against over-exploitation, whether of private or public property.</p> 
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				<link>http://250bpm.com/blog:29/comments/show#post-1914962</link>
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				<pubDate>Fri, 13 Dec 2013 22:24:42 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>erwin</wikidot:authorName>								<content:encoded>
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						 <p>or what about &quot;The tragedy of abusing the commons for private exploitation&quot;?</p> <p>as indicated, it's rather the privatisation of the cows, and the resulting short-term individual profit-seeking that's causing the tragedy.</p> 
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				<pubDate>Mon, 02 Dec 2013 06:22:01 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>martin_sustrik</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>939</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Worst case scenario? All cattle dead. Are the villagers able to survive it? Yes. They can move elsewhere. Should we accept the scenario, just because it's not a global collapse? I doubt it.</p> <p>I like Nassim Talebs books as well, unfortunately, haven't read the last one yet.</p> 
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				<pubDate>Sun, 01 Dec 2013 17:50:49 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Jiri</wikidot:authorName>								<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Great essay!</p> <p>When cows are gone you can dig for gold,&#8230; Not scaling the cows business could be a mistake. Unless by cows you mean just environmental resources.</p> <p>The real question: what is the worst case scenario and can we survive it? If not then let's regulate. If yes (with proof!) then let's suck it up. Next time someone else will look like an &quot;idiot&quot; anyway.</p> <p>These ideas are not mine. They are the main point of Nassim Taleb's Antifragile book.</p> <p>PS: small typo s/prople/people/</p> 
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				<pubDate>Fri, 29 Nov 2013 22:37:47 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>martin_sustrik</wikidot:authorName>				<wikidot:authorUserId>939</wikidot:authorUserId>				<content:encoded>
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						 <p>Incidentally, I've been thinking about the elections lately. I wanted to write an essay calling the urge to vote based on &quot;if everyone did not vote&#8230;&quot; argument for what it is, namely an example of <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_thinking">magical thinking</a>, as if the fact that you go and vote somehow made others more likely to vote. And I think you are right, some people would feel offended by that.</p> 
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				<pubDate>Fri, 29 Nov 2013 21:40:20 +0000</pubDate>
				<wikidot:authorName>Norswap</wikidot:authorName>								<content:encoded>
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						 <p>I always saw the tragedy of the commons as very similar to the prisonner's dilemna: the optimal strategy for each individual leads a globally unoptimal situation.</p> <p>A real-life exemple: elections. Your vote is not going to tip the scale, and so voting is a waste of time. Except that if (mostly) everyone does this, it only leaves a handful of idiots / fanatics / paid voters to decide on the issue.</p> <p>Interestingly, most people get very upset when you suggest that voting is a waste of time. More understandably, most people condemn the idiot in the tragedy of the commons. So there seems to be a strong &quot;sense of the commons&quot;.</p> 
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